Create a Sense of Belonging With Jackye Clayton From Textio

One of many the reason why hiring folks from underrepresented teams as the primary stage is mistaken is as a result of you have got folks from underrepresented teams which might be there. Ask them about their experiences. What do they’d they prefer to see? What do they suppose are lacking? As a result of they’re having the conversations whether or not you realize it or not. Perhaps they haven’t felt open to share that info with you. However that is also vital to take account internally of the place do we have to begin? So you may have construct packages to ensure that persons are feeling welcome and seeing if there may be any gaps.


Welcome to the Workology Podcast, a podcast for the disruptive office chief. Be a part of host Jessica Miller-Merrell, founding father of, as she sits down and will get to the underside of tendencies, instruments, and case research for the enterprise chief, HR, and recruiting skilled who’s bored with the established order. Now right here’s Jessica with this episode of Workology.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:01:01.59] This podcast is a part of the Workology Podcast that’s targeted on DEI and HR. Variety, fairness, inclusion will not be new concepts in HR or company arenas, however in current months, the significance and significance of DEI within the office has gotten leaders all through company to start out desirous about what doing the appropriate factor in our group seems like. For many people in HR, this implies we’re not taking DEI initiatives to stakeholders. These stakeholders are coming to us on the lookout for solutions, and we have to be prepared to reply. This podcast is powered by Ace the HR Examination  and Upskill HR. These are two programs that I provide for HR certification prep and recertification for HR leaders. Go to Be Earlier than I introduce our podcast visitor for at the moment, I do need to hear from you. Textual content the phrase “PODCAST” to 512-548-3005, ask questions, go away feedback, and make recommendations for future company. That is my group textual content quantity and I need your suggestions. Right this moment I’m joined by Jackye Clayton. She’s the Vice President of Expertise Acquisition and  DEIB at Textio. Jackie is an acclaimed thought chief and inspirational speaker on recruiting and DEI subjects. In her position because the VP of Expertise Acquisition and DEI, she leads all associated work at Textio, offers essential experience to clients and serves as a number one voice within the merchandise Textio creates for the broader ecosystem. Jackye has been named one of many 9 Most Highly effective Ladies in Enterprise You Ought to Know by SDHR Consulting. She’s considered one of 15 Ladies in HR Tech to Observe by VidCruiter, and one of many Prime Recruitment Thought Leaders that you will need to comply with by interviewMocha Journal. She’s additionally among the many Prime 100 checklist of Human Sources Influencers by Human Useful resource Govt Journal. Jackye was beforehand an editor for RecruitingDaily, and at the moment co-hosts a preferred DEI podcast, Inclusive AF. Jackye, welcome to the Workolgy Podcast.

Jackye Clayton: [00:03:08.22] Hello, I’m joyful to be right here.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:03:10.59] I’m so pleased with you. , we’ve recognized one another for a very long time. Sure, however then I learn your, your, your intro and I’m like, hey!

Jackye Clayton: [00:03:20.52] Proper? On the moon!

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:03:22.26] On the moon! Nicely, I’ve talked to lots of D&I leaders, DEI leaders, DEIA leaders. And I really like that you simply’re utilizing DEIB. For people who don’t know what the B stands for, are you able to discuss that and why it’s so vital?

Jackye Clayton: [00:03:39.93] Sure, the B stands for belonging. And, you realize, as we undergo this journey, one of many challenges and a part of the rationale why there’s been such an emphasis on DEIB is inviting individuals who could also be, traditionally have been disregarded. And so there’s potential there for that particular person to develop into othered after which not really feel snug. Perhaps they don’t have a tradition of inclusion. And so it’s like, okay, I’ve been included, however do I really feel like I belong? So the instance that you simply hear lots, there’s a quote that comes out from the girl operating variety at Netflix. I can’t bear in mind her identify proper now, however the quote principally says, “Variety is being requested to the dance and inclusion is being requested to bounce.” And belonging means there’s a pool desk within the nook simply in case dancing isn’t even a factor, like, you need to do. Ensuring that they ask you what sort of songs you’d like on the playlist and ensuring they’ve gluten-free waffles, you realize, so I really feel like I truly belong right here. And so with that, we actually sort of deal with ensuring that we’ve got a psychologically secure atmosphere and assist our managers maintain that in thoughts as they’re growing packages.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:04:54.46] I really like that. And I believe it’s vital to say that you simply would possibly really feel secure at work. And I imply, like me and then you definitely’re listening, however your workers, sure people, managers, workers, they may not. So simply since you really feel alright about it doesn’t imply that anyone else feels okay and included, like, they belong.

Jackye Clayton: [00:05:14.59] That’s proper. And along with that, there’s office trauma that occurs that you’ll have not ignored otherwise you go alongside the way in which. And there’s issues which have occurred in your life at work that for no matter motive, perhaps there wasn’t a fair distribution of energy, or perhaps originally of your profession the place you’re probably not positive what to do as a result of our lives are tied to work, proper? It’s how we generate profits. It determines on, on our households, the place we stay, the place our youngsters go to high school, you realize, all of a lot of these issues. And so what occurs, even when you have got a, a corporation that focuses on DEIB, you may nonetheless carry a few of that trauma with you that you simply bear in mind from instances previous. And so it’s vital to acknowledge you might be doing all the steps accurately. You’re treating folks the identical approach you’d deal with everybody else. However to me, on the receiving finish, it feels very completely different to me due to my experiences. We’re all a product of our numerous experiences, and so generally with that we’ve got to provide a pleasant reminder that we’re not all the identical. We need to maintain these issues into consideration in order that we are able to get to the enterprise of doing our jobs with out pointless distractions, if that is smart.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:06:34.69] It does. So let’s discuss perhaps some examples of what belonging seems like in observe at work.

Jackye Clayton: [00:06:42.19] Certain. So one of many issues that we do is we’ve got therapeutic circles. And therapeutic circles, it permits folks to share ideas which might be on their thoughts with out debate. It’s not up for dialogue, it’s not a part of coverage. However giving folks an opportunity to share their, their ideas is useful in order that they know that they’ve a voice and that they’re being heard. The opposite half is we’ve got like at Textio, we’ve got an inclusion council in order that we are able to ensure that the insurance policies and packages which might be in place, persons are participating there, that persons are taking part and seeing. And we’ve got somebody from each division as part of this inclusion council to say what has been the influence. In order that we observed, are folks taking part extra? Do that individuals really feel like they belong? And what recommendations do we’ve got? It’s additionally ensuring that you simply’re doing stock of the folks which might be in your group. Is it a spot the place somebody who’s completely different can really feel like they, they belong and holding folks accountable for these efforts? And, you realize, it’s difficult as a result of actually we’re seeing the shift the place HR can be liable for firm tradition. A number of instances together with the one who’s liable for DEI, and we all know that tradition can shift with each rent. And so you actually have to remain on high of it and just be sure you’re paying consideration earlier than, we need to do it proactively, so earlier than one thing occurs that we’ve got to react to, we need to take a look at it from a proactive standpoint.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:08:22.71] For context, how large is Textio’s? What’s the worker dimension?

Jackye Clayton: [00:08:27.54] Textio, I believe we’re at 127 proper now. So we’re small and that’s vital to note. However what’s additionally nice for folks to grasp is that this can be a directive that got here from the highest of the group and why I’m there, not one thing that occurred in the course of it. It’s, it’s one thing that’s been, and it’s scary, proper? It’s a scary job. I didn’t understand it was scary till I began speaking out within the subject. And persons are like, oh, so that you’re liable for inclusion in an organization that helps different organizations discover inclusion? And I’m like, Oh, I bought a cramp. I’m like, I didn’t even take into consideration that earlier than I came to visit as a result of it’s been part of my world for such a very long time. However yeah, so it provides me a specific amount of autonomy to have the ability to put specifically packages for positive.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:09:19.49] Nicely, I believe it’s vital to speak about how massive the corporate is, as a result of generally I believe folks suppose, oh, we’re a small firm, we solely have 50 workers. Like we don’t have the folks energy or a must, to have this stuff like an inclusion council in place. But it surely’s by no means too early to start out constructing in inclusion and serving to folks really feel like they belong.

Jackye Clayton: [00:09:43.40] Sure. And it’s very useful when you find yourself a smaller firm earlier than going to an ERG or a special group, which is an entire one other podcast all to itself. However you continue to need to ensure that folks belong and also you need to just be sure you’re fostering that progress. It’s a mandatory enterprise ability now, and other people wish to these packages of seeing what you’re doing of longevity. And it’s a retention concern at this level. And it’s for everybody, for everybody of each background, trying to see how persons are being handled and is it an equitable house, even when they’re a member of a majority group, nonetheless need to ensure that they’re working for a corporation that embraces variety and is treating folks in an equitable approach.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:33.26] So that you’ve been within the recruiting house for, for 20+ years?

Jackye Clayton: [00:10:38.24] Sure.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:39.80] A protracted-ass time.

Jackye Clayton: [00:10:40.82] Have a look at the grey, dude. I didn’t begin that approach.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:10:45.05] Are you able to discuss how you bought began after which why you have been drawn into DEI as a pacesetter?

Jackye Clayton: [00:10:51.71] Sure. So I actually went in throughout recruiting. I began company recruiting. On the time, I had spent 4 years not working, caring for my youngsters and elevating my youngsters. And through that point, no lie. I do know that is going to sound odd, however throughout that point I turned a Tupperware girl, proper? I had to return to work and I used to be like, I used to be a enterprise analyst, a technical enterprise analyst earlier than. And I used to be like, I don’t know something that’s occurred on with expertise. I’ve simply been altering diapers and chasing youngsters. And I began promoting Tupperware and I used to be like, I’m going to place Tupperware on my resume. And so they actually introduced me in as a result of my resume, in fact, that is pre-ATS and pre-LinkedIn and pre-online, however I had gross sales and I had expertise and in order that’s what they have been on the lookout for to search out recruiters, expertise recruiters. However throughout that point and beginning to take part in organizations for expertise acquisition and, in HR, there was a necessity to search out candidates from underrepresented teams and the methodologies that individuals have been utilizing meant that I wasn’t going to be discovered. And I believed I used to be fairly nice, proper? So I used to be like, wait, I need to have the ability to be discovered. I need to attempt to make recommendations and analysis.

Jackye Clayton: [00:12:15.17] And I began writing for SourceCon. And what was attention-grabbing is that I used to be requested to jot down about variety, however not write about ladies or folks of shade, which I used to be like, Oh, okay, I’ll get proper again. I needed to go do analysis as a result of I used to be like, that’s all I learn about. And it actually introduced in my horizons and I spotted how a lot I didn’t know. And I, on the time, after we have been beginning to get to doing on-line recruiting or on-line insurance policies, there was an enormous push of sharing that info. And so I simply needed to share that info and began realizing a number of the struggles and with that, began working in that approach with lots of startups writing about HR expertise and seeing the gaps of how this was not made to search out everybody and simply turned obsessed with discovering methods to make that extra equitable. And so it sort of came to visit. So it’s all the time been dotted line to HR. All the time had that relationship. I’ve labored in recruitment underneath company and the place it was part of HR and now the place we report on to the CEO, I report back to the CEO and so they report back to me as a dotted line partnership with human sources.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:13:33.82] That was going to be my subsequent query, as a result of I believe that lots of instances folks simply put HR, like variety underneath HR and there’s nothing mistaken with it. But when, I really feel like in case you’re going to be critical about variety, fairness, inclusion, and belonging, it’s best to report on to the CEO and be a member of the chief management group.

Jackye Clayton: [00:13:56.44] Thanks for saying that. I imply, it’s a enterprise initiative and other people have to grasp there’s a distinction while you’re taking a look at a ardour, like a private ardour outdoors of labor versus the enterprise, to creating positive that we’re, we’re capable of proceed to conduct the enterprise, which implies we’ve got to align these DEIB targets with the enterprise targets. And we have to take a look at it realistically, like what expertise goes to assist us to have the best alternatives to have folks from underrepresented teams. What states ought to we recruit in and what are, after which we’ve got to companion with HR as a result of what are the foundations throughout the numerous states during which we rent? There’s numerous issues [00:14:39.82] with. [00:14:40.00] There’s all kinds of nuances. And we companion, particularly with our HR enterprise companion with the management group, the place we fulfill a sure hole of teaching and coaching with our leaders however deal with that side and so they can deal with a number of the different points of profession mapping and all of these items. So we actually work hand in hand collectively on lots of these points, however I believe some folks simply default, you’re employed with people, so variety should fall underneath HR. And there’s a sure alternative. , there’s issues that we be taught as we’ve gone by means of the way in which and naturally, we’ve all heard of circumstances and various things which have gone on in that house. However as we’ve develop into extra conscious and it’s tied to these enterprise wants, it must be tied to a pacesetter that may implement and make these adjustments and concentrate on the significance. And in order that’s why you want that direct line of communication.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:15:38.62] I believe that’s the most important problem. We’ve employed all these DEI people to steer the range efforts for our organizations, however as a result of they don’t have a direct line to the chief group, they aren’t capable of discuss concerning the enterprise influence or the price range that they want or the folks to have the ability to do this. And so I see lots of actually nice folks that in 2020, 2021 moved into DEI roles after which have left and moved someplace else as a result of it was an answer due to, it was a response to one thing that was within the information. Black Lives Matter and George Floyd, which I completely, we wanted to have, we have to have these folks within the organizations. But when they don’t report back to the particular person with the price range, the purse strings, and tie it to a enterprise end result, it’s not going to essentially be utilized.

Jackye Clayton: [00:16:33.70] That’s proper. And I believe the frustration is as a result of lots of organizations gave that position to the one who appeared to be most passionate into the group. And simply because you’re a member of an underrepresented group doesn’t make you an skilled about having to cope with the DEIB inside a corporation. Such as you don’t see lots of people which might be cooks which might be additionally weight loss program specialists, proper? Like, yeah, I’m obsessed with meals. I need folks to be joyful. That doesn’t imply I, my meals are going to assist folks drop some weight per se simply because I’m in that position. And so what occurs is you get excited and in case you haven’t performed it from that enterprise facet, you get excited, however then you definitely get upset and also you haven’t performed this work and understood why is that this a problem within the first place? And it’s so vital to have the ability to, such as you’re saying, is have that direct line and see what the general influence goes to be. And for instance. We’re wanting, we have been on the lookout for an HRIS earlier this yr and the members of our group have been a part of that course of and searching and so they, you’d be shocked on what number of or perhaps not, perhaps not you, however anyone listening goes to be shocked to know that there are HRIS techniques and it stated lady, man or x the place the alternatives, and we have been like, oh, we can’t use this. We are able to’t use that. It isn’t inclusive. There’s no reporting. We are able to’t take a look at the intersectionality, you realize, like our democrat, like, we are able to’t use that. And that got here purely from a partnership alongside and the understanding earlier than making a few of these selections. However you’re proper, it does take price range, it does take assist. And it’s lots of work. And it’s unlucky that individuals can’t, the identical folks that ask for these packages to be in place are the identical folks that get in the way in which of having the ability to transfer ahead.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:18:29.90] HRIS techniques that shouldn’t have these choices, take observe since you’re not going to get enterprise in case you aren’t pondering from an inclusive perspective. And that reporting is so vital.

Jackye Clayton: [00:18:43.07] It’s completely key. I imply, we interviewed somebody final week who, we’ve got a spot so that you can enter your pronouns, and so they have been like, It’s the primary time anybody has requested me my pronouns earlier than I went to the interview course of. And everybody, nobody has misgendered me by means of this entire course of and so they needed to work with us for that motive alone. I imply, they went by means of every thing else. However there’s, and it doesn’t take lots. It doesn’t take lots.

Break: [00:19:12.83] Let’s take a reset. That is Jessica Miller-Merrell, and you’re listening to the Workology Podcast powered by Ace the HR Examination and Upskill HR. Go to Be to be taught extra about our programs for skilled improvement and HR certification. Right this moment we’re speaking with Jackye Clayton, Vice President of Expertise Acquisition and DEIB at Textio. Earlier than we get again, I need to hear from you. Shoot me a textual content. Textual content “PODCAST” to 512-548-3005. Ask me questions, go away feedback, and make recommendations for future company. That is my group textual content quantity and I need to hear from you.

Break: [00:19:51.71] Private {and professional} improvement is important for profitable HR leaders. Be a part of Upskill HR to entry life coaching, group, and over 100 on-demand programs for the dynamic chief. HR recert credit out there. Go to for extra.


Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:20:08.07] So that you’ve talked about one factor which is asking pronouns through the hiring course of to be extra inclusive. What are some steps or different ways in which you as a TA or an HR chief, can take to make sure that candidates really feel snug and extra included within the hiring course of?

Jackye Clayton: [00:20:28.44] Sure. So a type of issues is we give our candidates the questions that we’re going to ask, the issues that they need to have the ability to put together for as a result of we would like candidates to come back and present their finest selves. We don’t need to quiz them on their potential to deal with stress and nervousness through the interview course of. We’ve got began asking prematurely, do they want shut captions on through the interview course of? Do, you realize, what sort of software program have they got in order that we are able to ensure that we’re being equitable, letting them learn about easy methods to activate accessibility in Zoom? As a result of for some folks it could be their first expertise. Perhaps they’ve solely used Groups or another sort of product in order that it may be accessible. And we additionally introduce ourselves with our, our pronouns and we do a spherical robin and it has develop into a part of our tradition. And we additionally ask candidates in the event that they’d prefer to observe interviewing earlier than they go on to the interview course of to ensure that particularly folks which might be neurodiverse or perhaps they need to check out the software program that we give these choices as nicely earlier than. And it’s humorous as a result of God bless Glassdoor, it’s humorous to see the change the place persons are like, I didn’t get the job, however it was a constructive interview expertise. And I’m like, Oh, thank goodness. We’ve been working actually, actually exhausting on that to ensure that folks really feel like they belong and take the burden off of the candidate and put the onus on ourselves.

Jackye Clayton: [00:22:02.52] A number of folks have an lodging assertion on their job posts or on their profession pages that claims, you probably have an issue, tell us. Or they may say, We encourage folks from underrepresented communities to use, however they don’t say from numerous communities, whether or not or not it’s, you realize, if, in the event that they’re, with a incapacity, we take a look at all skills we need to rent from all skills, all communities, simply issues like that, and assist folks know that we’ve paid consideration to these issues so that individuals don’t should really feel like they should out themselves through the interview course of. I really like taking a look at closed captions. It simply is like I do on a regular basis. However I don’t know, I assume it’s due to, after I began taking a look at movies at work, I’m simply used to having closed captions within the background. And so folks favor that than having to say, you realize, I’m just a little bit listening to impaired or I exploit an ocular some sort of factor to assist me with listening to, really feel uncomfortable sharing as a result of traditionally lots of people have been discriminated due to these issues. So we simply provide it to everybody. And so it actually has helped in that course of, ensuring that individuals really feel like they will belong.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:23:20.49] I’ve used the Zoom closed captioning function we interviewed on the podcast, Meryl Evans who’s deaf and it was an excellent expertise. I used to be just a little nervous. We examined it out beforehand, however it was very easy to make use of. And she or he additionally reads lips, however you may’t depend that everybody goes to be lip reader.

Jackye Clayton: [00:23:42.60] Proper.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:23:43.11] And it was, it was implausible. We had an excellent dialog. It wasn’t awkward or bizarre in any respect. It was an excellent, it was nice. I cherished it.

Jackye Clayton: [00:23:52.86] Sure. Yeah. I imply, and such as you stated, you might simply flip it on. And it’s essential for, we’re beginning to have a look at another issues for those that are visually impaired in order that we are able to have it in place in order that when folks have lodging, we have already got a listing of the lodging we’ve got in home, if it’s something outdoors of that. However then we additionally observe in order that, as a result of that is the place bias slips in, proper? I’ll always remember a, I had an interview with a candidate that was listening to impaired and so they didn’t inform the hiring supervisor that they’d an individual who was a translator. They’d somebody who did signal language. They didn’t learn lips, and they also talked for that particular person. However the one who was deaf additionally had noise, made noises, and the hiring supervisor was like, I can’t do that. PS: Sure, you may. And quantity two, it’s the legislation. Like, baffled. However that’s what their bias got here in. And it was unconscious as a result of they hadn’t studied it, didn’t perceive this was their first expertise. And so we need to ensure that all of that is in order that we are able to simply do our jobs, like I stated, with out distraction. And so the extra that we are able to expose to numerous cultures and that’s the great thing about variety, fairness, inclusion, and belonging. Extra publicity that we’ve got, the higher we may be ready, conscious of our unconscious bias, and permit folks to have the ability to then be their finest selves at work.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:25:25.23] I adore it. And I really like, I really like that you simply’re doing all this. One of many issues that Meryl additionally stated within the interview, and I believed this was a extremely nice suggestion isn’t everybody can reply the telephone, particularly while you’re deaf or listening to impaired. So having an possibility that claims, how do you like to speak?

Jackye Clayton: [00:25:43.62] Sure.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:25:44.07] And it was just a bit dropdown or a field that stated, I need to discuss by way of textual content. I believe that these issues, asking pronouns, speaking about what sort of lodging you want, having an e mail that truly HR can obtain. So if anyone wants an lodging, they will ask for that earlier than the interview. These are all small issues that we are able to do to, to make folks really feel extra welcome and inclusive, which is what we must be doing.

Jackye Clayton: [00:26:11.01] Sure.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:26:11.70] I need to return only a bit and discuss pronouns as a result of we talked about them just a little bit. However why is supporting gender-inclusive pronouns so vital?

Jackye Clayton: [00:26:23.82] A fantastic query. One of many issues that’s vital, and I ought to, as a disclaimer, share that I’m the mother or father of a trans particular person, not their non-binary and their pronouns are they/them. It’s vital as a result of once more, we’re normalizing that we share the pronouns and never being assumptive. One other factor that’s very easy is to ensure that we discuss with everybody as they/them till they tell us what their pronouns are. As a result of once more, you don’t need to inflict further trauma on an individual by making them should out themselves. Like that is why it’s all about security and we’ve got to ensure that we’re accommodating for that. So we share it so that individuals really feel snug sharing and we don’t ask folks. In the event that they want to share their pronouns, they’ll. In the event that they don’t, they don’t should. But it surely has develop into coverage internally. And it’s additionally so we don’t misgender folks. Like, simply as a lot as I’ll admit, like there was a lady we have been interviewing named Jennifer, and I stated Jenny out of nowhere. And so they have been like, It’s Jennifer. And I’ve like, needed to love, curl right into a ball and die. However I wouldn’t name anyone by another identify, proper? That I simply made up, proper? Like, let’s attempt to get to know the entire particular person and this simply takes it out in order that we’re sharing that early on and other people have that understanding earlier than it turns into uncomfortable. We don’t need to trigger any uncomfortable conditions for anybody.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:28:04.35] I’ve observed that whereas LinkedIn has an possibility so that you can share your pronouns and I’ve gotten a number of messages the place I’ve shared mine and it’s like I don’t, I don’t need to be linked to anybody who does X that’s keen to share. And I’m like, Thanks for eliminating your self from my house, proper? As a result of I don’t need to be surrounded by individuals who aren’t keen to, to share and inquire. I simply need folks to really feel snug. And I believe that’s the reason we ask.

Jackye Clayton: [00:28:40.56] And may you think about, like, so then you definitely go and also you begin your first day after which somebody decides for you. It’s vital to say folks say, What are your most well-liked pronouns? No, they’re not most well-liked like my pronouns are she/her. You don’t get to say, Nicely, I do know they’re she/her, however I’m going to make use of e/his. What? No, you don’t, you don’t get to do this. And we, it’s humorous how we promote, we would like folks to carry their entire selves to work, however then folks strive to remove by saying, Oh, however we don’t do pronouns. Nicely, then I can’t carry my entire self to work if that’s the case.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:29:18.76] One factor that, and we talked about this on the prep name that my daughter Riley did not too long ago when she did like a pronoun quiz and he or she simply requested a sequence of questions of like how I want to be referred, what my pronouns have been. After which she requested issues like, How do I need to be complimented? Is good-looking applicable? Is it stunning? And these are all phrases or After which she was like, Mrs., Ms., Miss, Mr., what are combine? What are my preferences? And it, it was, it was good to listen to. And likewise it was shocking, like, I’ll obtain all compliments in the event that they’re masculine or female, female. Don’t name me ma’am or Mrs., I don’t know. But it surely was, it was I believe it was a pleasant exercise. It additionally, like, that is one thing that’s vital to Riley, so it’s vital to me and it additionally helps me sort of see into the way forward for what the office goes to be like. I imply, you have got, you have got children which might be within the workforce.

Jackye Clayton: [00:30:25.30] Sure.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:30:25.75] And my daughter will probably be quickly. So that is going to be a standard request and expectation.

Jackye Clayton: [00:30:34.63] That’s proper. And it’s so vital that, once more, I’ve my oldest has been misgendered. And like I stated, it was, they couldn’t do their job that day, proper? They have been harm and so they felt unsafe and, you realize, begin giving folks the facet eye and seeing on how they have been being, being handled. And, and so it simply, is, it’s simply good observe.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:31:08.09] What errors do you see firms make with regards to DEI? Perhaps like the commonest or perhaps the one which drives you the craziest?

Jackye Clayton: [00:31:17.12] I believe the very first thing that drives me loopy is that they’ll say, Oh, we have to have extra ladies and other people of shade, and so they simply begin leaping in and with out getting ready the group, letting folks know that that is what’s occurring, the expectations. Like, like we’re speaking about now, the expectation is to share your pronouns. The expectation is that we make lodging. The expectation is that this stuff are going to occur. That drives me loopy. The opposite factor isn’t having a definition or understanding of the demographics of the group. I snicker at my very own group. We’ve got an govt group that could be a majority ladies. And so for us, after we’re wanting on the definition of variety and inclusion, it’s like we actually want so as to add extra males to our govt group as quickly as we are able to as a result of there’s voices which might be lacking. And I believe that individuals don’t take a look at perhaps you do have gaps. In order that, that piece actually makes me go bananas. And one thing else that occurs is that we don’t maintain folks accountable to these numbers. One thing that we’ve modified internally is ensuring that there’s an govt. After all, once more, we’re 122 folks, however ensuring that there’s an govt that’s conscious of the hires which might be being made. And we began breaking down variety, fairness, and inclusion by division somewhat than the entire group. While you take a look at the entire group, it seems nice. However then while you take a look at it from a departmental standpoint, there are some which might be oversaturated in a single group and there are voices which might be lacking. And in order that drives me to the cocktails as nicely.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:33:07.07] And that’s why, that’s why we ask. I imply, so let’s shift over to perhaps finest recommendation. So finest recommendation for HR professionals who want to do extra work within the DEI house or carry new initiatives to their firms. The place do they begin?

Jackye Clayton: [00:33:24.41] Very first thing is to start out at house, proper? Maintain your individual home. One of many the reason why hiring folks from underrepresented teams as the primary stage is mistaken is as a result of you have got folks from underrepresented teams which might be there. Ask them about their experiences. What do they, would they prefer to see? What do they suppose are lacking? Since you, as a result of they’re having the conversations, whether or not you realize it or not. Perhaps they haven’t felt open to share that info with you. But it surely’s is also vital to take account internally of the place do we have to begin so you may have construct packages to ensure that persons are feeling welcome and seeing if there may be any gaps. The opposite half is to have a look at your job descriptions and ensuring that you’re referring, utilizing they/them as an alternative of constructing the assumptions in your writing and ensuring that there isn’t any detractors in your job descriptions, ensuring that you simply’re solely requiring the items which might be, actually should be required, and that you simply’re open to folks from different communities inside these roles. After which, in fact, letting folks know within the job descriptions that that is one thing that’s vital to the group.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:34:37.28] Nicely, Jackye, as all the time, thanks on your time chatting with us. It’s all the time good to catch up, even when it’s a podcast the place you’re being recorded. However, nicely, we have to meet up quickly. The place can folks go to attach extra with you, the podcast, and all of the issues?

Jackye Clayton: [00:34:53.69] Sure, so Inclusive AF, yow will discover it in your favourite place to hearken to podcasts. I believe we’re the one one known as Inclusive AF. And you may all the time discover me, I spell my identify just a little completely different. It’s Jackye Clayton, and I’m Jackye Clayton on LinkedIn and Twitter and I’m on LinkedIn and Twitter on a regular basis, so.

Jessica Miller-Merrell: [00:35:17.84] We’ll hyperlink to Inclusive AF after which your LinkedIn and your Twitter on, on the present notes. So in case you simply need to go to and scroll on over to Jackye’s interview, you will get all of the issues. However thanks once more. It was a pleasure.

Jackye Clayton: [00:35:32.51] You’re welcome. Thanks for having me.

Closing: [00:35:34.88] Conversations about variety, fairness, and inclusion are so vital and we have to have extra of them as a result of these conversations don’t simply spark, however they ignite change. As HR leaders, we are able to assist our organizations with sources that open up DEI conversations and initiatives in a approach that makes house for workers to carry their entire selves to work, whereas additionally setting an instance of what doing the appropriate factor seems like. I admire Jackye as a pal, as an skilled, and her experience and her time. So thanks, Jackye. Loved speaking to you at the moment on the podcast. And I need to thanks for becoming a member of the Workology Podcast powered by Upskill HR and Ace the HR Examination. This podcast is for the disruptive office chief who’s bored with the established order. Let’s change work collectively. My identify is Jessica Miller-Merrell. Thanks for listening to the Workology Podcast. Share your opinions, ideas, recommendations by texting me. Textual content the phrase “PODCAST” to 512-548-3005. You possibly can ask me questions, go away recommendations, and let me know who you need to be on this podcast as a visitor. Till subsequent time you may go to to hearken to all our earlier podcast episodes. I hope that you haven’t only a good day, however an excellent day. See you quickly.

Join with Jackye Clayton.



– Jackye Clayton on LinkedIn

– Jackye on Twitter

– Inclusive AF Podcast

– Episode 378: Belief and Understanding within the Incapacity Disclosure Dialog With Albert Kim

– Episode 374: Digital Fairness at Work and in Life With Invoice Curtis-Davidson and Chris Wooden

– Episode 369: Making the Office Accessible Each for Workers and Contractors With Meryl Evans

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